Thanks @hornbyp

In regards to the connections, I have tried both plugged in, one pugged in, neither plugged in, it really does not seem to make any difference.

In regards to the other comments:

I have noticed the wireless performance is not outstanding, these are replacing a NightHawk 7000 and on both cases the old router was much better in range and performance. The 912c is not bad to be fair, the 903's 5Ghz is atrocious, it literally wont connect to devices in the next room, 2.4Ghz is not too bad, but pretty poor for this class of kit.

Have not started to mess about with DFS channels as yet, but have noticed that nearly any changes require a reboot, and I have to reset the devices with a paperclip and reload the config quite often as well.

In regards to VLANS, this is exactly why I stripped back the config to out of box, simple as possible. I was planning on a reasonably complex setup with 802.q tags flying about routing through a PFsense. I was expecting a bit of a scrap getting this going but, according to all of my research they should mesh up to 4 different SSIDS on 4 different Vlans using 4 different tags. It works fine with just the 902c. The fact the mesh does not work with factory settings really concerns me.

I have logged a ticket with support, unless they come back with a miracle I am just going to return the 903 and ebay the 912c and start again. Draytek have a good rep in the SMB market but overall my current impressions of this gen are poor to say the least, both devices don't have good range, the GUI freeze's a lot, I have to reboot all of the time and the main reason I bought them both doesn't seem to function, at all! If they don't work well together this does not seem to be documented in their sales literature. The whole idea of buying same gen, same protocol is that it "just works", fitting the second AP was supposed to be a 5 minute job, mid day yesterday!

smc wrote:
I have noticed the wireless performance is not outstanding, these are replacing a NightHawk 7000 and on both cases the old router was much better in range and performance. The 912c is not bad to be fair, the 903's 5Ghz is atrocious, it literally wont connect to devices in the next room, 2.4Ghz is not too bad, but pretty poor for this class of kit.

I was referring to accessing the AP802, while it was in wireless Mesh mode. At the time, I put it down to the fact that it and the AP903 were set to the same channel (automatically) - I intended to experiment with this later, but never got round to it. (FWIW, I think the wired performance - of both AP903 and AP802 is pretty decent. I suppose it depends what you're comparing them to :wink: ).

[I did some tests, here: https://forum.draytek.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=23630&p=96609#p96609 ]

The more I look into this Draytek mesh business the more confused I get.

Reading the User manual for the 912C it appears that in the examples given there is a configuration with 3 Mesh Roots and 4 Mesh Nodes. It seems to me that maybe I don't understand the meaning of "Root" ?

EDIT- I think I see the answer to this part - it seems that one can have several "mesh groups" on the same LAN, each root having its own group of nodes.

Under the troubleshooting section it includes:

Check the OP (operation) Mode. Make sure new Mesh Node doesn't accidentally get DHCP
IP and becomes AP mode.

- Check the country code and channels. For example, it is impossible for connecting a
VigorAP 912C Mesh Root with 5G channel 36 to VigorAP920R Wireless Mesh Node in EU
country code.

I don't recall anything in the setup instructions telling me not to give my nodes IP addresses (I use IP/MAC binding so they do effectively get them via DHCP but always the same ones) - they are still "nodes" according to their config pages though. I'm not sure I understand this - does the root (or indeed one of the roots!) hand out an IP address when it "adopts" a node? Do nodes actually have individual IP addresses? Does this mean I don't actually have a "mesh"? How do you stop a device from "accidentally" getting an IP address via DHCP?

EDIT 2 - ah, I see that one has to power up the APs with no network connection - it appears that the root assigns them an IP address when they are "adopted". Looks like I need to re-set my APs and start the process again.....

EDIT 3 - after re-setting and adopting a node in wireless mode as instructed, I see that when changing it to Wired Uplink the root has to search for it and re-adopt it in the new mode in order for it to be recognised and not try to change itself to AP mode.

EDIT 4 - during the adoption process the AP903s were assigned separate IPs - their dashboards say it is assigned by DHCP so not sure how that fits with Draytek's notes above. Interestingly the 2926ac root is on 5GHz channel 44 but all of the nodes are on channel 36 - they were set up wirelessly and that didn't seem to matter.

There seems to be something odd in the online simulator for the 912C - the 5GHz wifi setup is shown as Enabled with one Draytek- SSID and on Channel 36. However, there is a note under the SSID table on the page saying Wireless 5G is disabled? In the Dashboard the Mesh appears to be operating on Channel 153 with its own very different SSID. Where does that come from? The AP903s don't display similar information, suggesting that there is something different about the 912.

Piste Basher wrote:
Reading the User manual for the 912C ...

I really wish I hadn't succumbed to curiosity and looked at that It just utterly confused me

What on earth has how an AP gets a management IP address got to do with anything :?:

Try this instead: https://dongknows.com/mesh-wi-fi-system-explained/

He wrote: No matter how you call it, in a nutshell, a mesh consists of multiple hardware Wi-Fi broadcasters (routers, access points, etc.) that work together to form a single unified Wi-Fi network.

Well having set up my APs as recommended and let them be given IP addresses when adopted, I've now given them fixed IP bindings. The mesh doesn't seem to mind at all....

Another thing that has puzzled me for a while - I use 802.1x for my main SSID. Under the "Fast Roaming" option (not the 802.1r option) and "Pre-Authentication" the AP903 says that the default is disabled, but there doesn't seem to be any way to enable it :?: How do any of the "Fast Roaming" options act with a mesh setup, if at all?

I've been doing some reading...
Starting with this: IEEE 802.11S: THE WLAN MESH STANDARD (The PDF version is a bit easier on the eye).

If nothing else, have a look at the diagram in that document. They envisage a far more complicated setup than Draytek give in the AP903 manual. They have Mesh Nodes with multiple interconnections, resulting in multiple (dynamic) paths through the network. In contrast, Draytek's shows something more akin to a 'Repeater' scenario.

It points out that the aim of IEEE 802.11s (which, granted, Draytek aren't actually claiming to implement), is to bring Wifi into line with Ethernet, when it comes to 'routing' at the MAC layer - where it's not necessary to define routes through the network - the nodes all communicate and learn for themselves. (This means IP addresses are totally irrelevant. I suppose by definition, it means that you could be running a protocol other than IP on it...)

The minute your Mesh nodes start using Ethernet as the backhaul, it's no longer a Wireless Mesh... (unless they are much fancier than Draytek's and participate in Wireless and Wired networks simultaneously).

Amongst other things I learned from that document, is that all Mesh nodes do 'coalesce' around a single channel, otherwise partitions form, where some parts of the mesh are unaware of other parts. It also acknowledges that 'Wireless Saturation' is going to be a problem...

When it comes to Roaming, it states that it is always the Mobile Client that decides when and where to roam (unless given no choice, by some proprietary system on the AP). IEEE 802.1r is some sort of a 'helper' for 802.1x authentication, 802.1k is a 'list' dished out by the AP, with 'suggestions' as to where to try next. 802.1v escapes me for the moment, but didn't sound that exciting either :wink: . Draytek's AP Assisted Roaming is entirely proprietary - and is presumably not enabled in a true 'wireless' mesh - in case it chops off a Mesh Node perhaps? (Why Mesh mode has to be enabled at all for it to work, is still a mystery - not documented by Draytek, but found by experiment. The fact that older Router's don't participate, indicates different versions of this mechanism may exist)

(The other Fast Roaming options on the AP903 seem to be proprietary as well (caching of some sort - and only for WPA2/PSK?).

So the only possible benefit I get from 'Mesh' mode, is the ability to update all other (one!) node(s) in the system - a feature that I don't trust and hence don't use :lol: